There's a way in which Original Spin maps onto The Second Arrow from Buddhism (indeed, you literally describe it in two steps).
However, in my opinion, spin is a better name, because when it happens, something is literally getting twisted up (in one's awareness, environment, cognition, action, etc.) that needs un-twisting.
If it happens intensely enough (or for long enough), the twist literally gets frozen and hardens in the person's being.
It would be entertaining if you could come up with a term for 'unwinding spin' that sounds like salvation (which is what undoes sin in the Christian canon, and restores right ontology).
yeah, we've noted that parallel, and noted with some amusement that it's possible for someone who has learned about the second arrow to go "argh, I'm totally second-arrowing myself here" ...which you can also do with "argh, I'm totally spinning myself here" but we hope to do a lot of work in our framing of it that makes that tragicomic error harder to inadvertently reach for.
part of it is like, a lot of philosophies will sort of frame that move as a choice, but seeing it as a sort of dead memetic mechanism helps restore agency, like it's not exactly that you're doing it to yourself, but if you see it clearly you can undo it easily (so in that sense there's a choice). but if you can't see it clearly, then no such choice is available, so gaining "spinsight" is more critical than any particular choice.
Right, as Malcolm already mentioned, he and I have talked about how Original Spin is kind of the Second Arrow. (I think Malcolm pointed it out to me. I didn't recall what the Second Arrow was even about at the time!)
Based on what little I've seen so far, the Second Arrow discourse seems to imply that the person is making an ERROR. That might not be the intention but it's how the idea seems to be used. Whereas Original Spin simply IS. It's painful, but it's also strategic and there for a reason. You in fact don't want to unwind Spin if it's solving a real problem you don't have a better solution for. I think that attitude helps avoid the "Spinning about Spin" phenomenon (akin to "Damn it, I'm doing the Second Arrow thing? Oh shoot, and that's a THIRD arrow! And a FOURTH! GAH!!").
I think of salvation pretty differently from unwinding Spin, though I agree they're related. In particular, my understanding is that salvation isn't up to the saved. It's offered freely. Your only job is to accept it. I think that can be a powerful strategy for unwinding Spin, but it strikes me as a pretty different thing. "God loves me so much he forgives even a horrid wretch like me." That statement is full of Spin but suggests that you don't need to do anything about it, which can relax the parts of the psyche that are maintaining Spin's wound-up energy. "I'm loved just as I am." Which can offer a template for self forgiveness, which is itself much more like unwinding Spin intentionally IME.
Interesting way to put it. In my zen lineage, we talk about the "core belief", which is an idea our root teacher, Joko Beck, borrowed from Aaron Beck's Cognitive Therapy (which later became CBT). It's extremely useful because understanding it helps with directly addressing the deepest sources of self-inflicted suffering.
There's a way in which Original Spin maps onto The Second Arrow from Buddhism (indeed, you literally describe it in two steps).
However, in my opinion, spin is a better name, because when it happens, something is literally getting twisted up (in one's awareness, environment, cognition, action, etc.) that needs un-twisting.
If it happens intensely enough (or for long enough), the twist literally gets frozen and hardens in the person's being.
It would be entertaining if you could come up with a term for 'unwinding spin' that sounds like salvation (which is what undoes sin in the Christian canon, and restores right ontology).
yeah, we've noted that parallel, and noted with some amusement that it's possible for someone who has learned about the second arrow to go "argh, I'm totally second-arrowing myself here" ...which you can also do with "argh, I'm totally spinning myself here" but we hope to do a lot of work in our framing of it that makes that tragicomic error harder to inadvertently reach for.
part of it is like, a lot of philosophies will sort of frame that move as a choice, but seeing it as a sort of dead memetic mechanism helps restore agency, like it's not exactly that you're doing it to yourself, but if you see it clearly you can undo it easily (so in that sense there's a choice). but if you can't see it clearly, then no such choice is available, so gaining "spinsight" is more critical than any particular choice.
Right, as Malcolm already mentioned, he and I have talked about how Original Spin is kind of the Second Arrow. (I think Malcolm pointed it out to me. I didn't recall what the Second Arrow was even about at the time!)
Based on what little I've seen so far, the Second Arrow discourse seems to imply that the person is making an ERROR. That might not be the intention but it's how the idea seems to be used. Whereas Original Spin simply IS. It's painful, but it's also strategic and there for a reason. You in fact don't want to unwind Spin if it's solving a real problem you don't have a better solution for. I think that attitude helps avoid the "Spinning about Spin" phenomenon (akin to "Damn it, I'm doing the Second Arrow thing? Oh shoot, and that's a THIRD arrow! And a FOURTH! GAH!!").
I think of salvation pretty differently from unwinding Spin, though I agree they're related. In particular, my understanding is that salvation isn't up to the saved. It's offered freely. Your only job is to accept it. I think that can be a powerful strategy for unwinding Spin, but it strikes me as a pretty different thing. "God loves me so much he forgives even a horrid wretch like me." That statement is full of Spin but suggests that you don't need to do anything about it, which can relax the parts of the psyche that are maintaining Spin's wound-up energy. "I'm loved just as I am." Which can offer a template for self forgiveness, which is itself much more like unwinding Spin intentionally IME.
Interesting way to put it. In my zen lineage, we talk about the "core belief", which is an idea our root teacher, Joko Beck, borrowed from Aaron Beck's Cognitive Therapy (which later became CBT). It's extremely useful because understanding it helps with directly addressing the deepest sources of self-inflicted suffering.
Yeah, I have a sneaking suspicion that if someone were to totally unwind all Spin in their psyche, this might be equivalent to the "no self" insight.